Please welcome my extra special guest, Tonight Show joke
writer and humorist Dylan Brody. His publicist saw my recent blog about
depression and Dylan wanted to add his opinions about this often misunderstood
illness.
Be sure to leave comments for Dylan and to check out his
book. All proceeds for the month of September will be donated to help those
suffering from depression.
Interview with
Dylan Brody
As a humorist, I genuinely believed that I would be able to
write my way out of a deep and difficult depression by mining it for every
laugh I could find. Once I thought of
the idea of creating a satirical self-help book, mocking the self-help genre
ruthlessly, I was sure I would succeed.
I did NOT write my way out of the depression. I did come up with this deeply goofy book
that promises to help readers get the most out of their depressions, the
deepest possible lows, the darkest possible blues.
I eventually found other tools to battle my depression, but
it wasn’t easy and each one seems to have a limited span of usefulness. For years I self-medicated with marijuana,
which I didn’t actually realize until it stopped working. Then a heavy athletic regimen served me for
about fifteen years and eventually that stopped doing the trick and the
depression re-emerged. Now I’m
medicated, but I remain hyper alert for resistance to the medication or changes
in my chemical and emotional balance. It
has been thrilling and a great relief to learn that I can be funny and creative
and productive without being a miserable ass all the time. (I might still be an ass. But I’m not always miserable)
Did writing “The Modern Depression Guide” help you? Did it
lift your mood since you wrote it on the sarcastic side?
Writing the book did not particularly help me, but it did
give me the opportunity to really examine and explore the cycles and spirals of
my depression in ways that I hadn’t before.
It’s also led me to a marvelous screenplay by the same title and it
always cheers me up to have another project to shop around. In truth, I have become to feel a bit like a
fraud. When I wrote the book, I still
genuinely believed at some level that depression was a necessary part of the
human condition, that it was definitely integral to my creative process. That’s part of the reason that I took the
stance, ironic as it was, that produced the book. Since then I’ve found a way out of the
depression for decades. Now I just hope
the book can serve to help open up a much needed conversation about depression
and mental health in general. The only
real way to explore taboo or uncomfortable intellectual territory is with the light
– and the lightness – of humor.
Have you ever dove into a bag of Chips Ahoy or other snack,
or (gulp) like me, packed on a bunch of weight because of a depressive episode?
Quite the opposite, actually. When I was really depressed, I think I used
to eat way less and lose weight. One of
the side effects of my current medication is weight gain. Also, difficulty reaching orgasm. It’s hard to believe that with side effects
like those, the stuff could cheer anyone up at all. It does though. It’s sort of a chemical miracle.
Have any of your friends or family or employers been
alienated because of your depression? Or if not quite alienated, what kinds of
problems have you had with them?
Oh, I suspect I alienated any number of people during my
years as a serious depressive. There
were a lot of club owners who didn’t want me back as a comic after I worked for
them and I had all sorts of paranoid fantasies about why that might be. It never occurred to me that it might just be
because I was snarky and critical and mean and no fun to be around. The more depressed I get, the more I blurt
out hurtful things thinking they’ll be funny.
When I went into therapy in ’93 or ’94 it was because my
wife couldn’t take it anymore. She said,
“You have to talk to someone. You’re absorbing
all the light in the apartment.”
Does depression run in your family and if so, who else
suffers from it?
My father suffers from depression, though I don’t think he
recognizes it. I think he believes his
frequent, deep sadness is simply the proper experience of the human
condition. I suspect it was from him
that I learned a lot of my coping mechanisms over the years. The very attitudes that make the book’s point
of view funny, I think, are attitudes I learned from my father.
Has your depression ever been so bad that you were suicidal?
If so, would you like to share your survival story?
I’ve certainly thought about suicide. I’ve never attempted it. Career suicide, yes. Actual existential suicide, no. I allow myself the room for suicidal ideation
as a sort of creative exercise, a dark outlet.
I don’t judge myself too harshly for things that I think. I have no intention of ever taking any real
action in that regard.
Do you see a doctor for your illness and do you take
medication? If do, do you feel this helps? What other things help you to manage
your depression?
I think I’ve already answered this, but yes. I’m currently on Paxil which seems to work
very, very well for me. Martial Arts
training was incredibly important as I started to find my way out of the
combined troubles of depression and a pot-haze that no longer cheered me at
all. For about ten years the Martial
Arts training alone staved off the depression and, as I understand it, for some
people athletic activity on a regular basis is enough to keep depression in check
for ever. (My father works out every day
and I suspect this is one of the reasons)
I go in and out of therapy, calling for tune-up sessions when the
darkness starts to close in.
What age old purpose do you think depression serves?
I think the idea that depression serves a purpose is one of
the lies that depression tells us. It
tells us that without it we would not be aware of injustice or we would not
have creative inspiration or we would not strive to improve our own lots or
society. When I’m depressed I start to
believe these lies. When I’m not
depressed it becomes clear that not only am I still inspired, creative,
conscience-driven, conscientious and ambitious, I am also better able to take
action to create, to express, to improve
my self and my world.
The idea that everything we feel must serve a purpose, must
be intended to teach us something is
sort of a weird post-hoc justification for a chemical event.
Do you have someone who is supportive of your depression?
How do they show their support? How would you like them to show their support?
I don’t want anyone to be supportive of my depression. I want people to be supportive of me as a
battle the depression. Over the years
I’ve known many who were the former, rather than the latter. There are a lot of people who are most
comfortable when those with whom they commiserate remain as depressed as
they. I try not to hang out with those
people. Some of them do it with subtle
digs at one’s accomplishments or one’s appearance. Others offer lengthy diatribes on the
injustices of the world with no mention of solution, only hopelessness.
My wife is tremendously supportive of me in my struggles
with depression. She has struggles of
her own and I strive to be supportive of her in those.
I also have a circle of good friends who let me hang out
with them even when I feel quiet and not at all funny, who forgive me when I
get all snarkilicious or douchey.
Sometimes I need that, just to be around people who I know will not hate
me if I feel unlovable.
Do you slip into depressive episodes often? Do yours tend to
last a long time? How do they manifest? Do you cry a lot? Sleep too much? Miss
a lot of work? Hide in your house? Cancel dates with friends and family? Hide
in the closet or under your blanket?
The episodes don’t happen as often as they used to. They used to hit me once or twice a year and
last a few weeks to a few months.
Generally I would sleep a lot and avoid people. I would stop showering and shaving. I would hate everything I wrote and see only
the flaws in anything I did. It’s been a
while since I’ve gone through a bad one like that.
Has anyone accused you of looking for sympathy or of being
lazy when you were depressed?
Do you mean anyone other than me? ‘cause I accuse myself of both of those
things constantly, depressed or not.
Have you lost anyone (spouse, partner, girlfriend/boyfriend,
friend) due to your depression? If so, would you like to share about it?
Oh, yeah. I spent
years on the road as a comic. I’ve known
a lot of great people who have given in to depression and taken their own lives
either actively through suicide or passively through drug or alcohol use. My best friend from the time I was in college
committed suicide shortly after I moved to Los Angeles in 1986. For years I blamed myself, thinking that I
should have been able to hear on the phone that something was wrong, that I
should have been able to save him somehow.
A couple of years ago I talked to his widow and found out that he had
been bipolar, that there was genuinely nothing I could have done, nothing I
would have even been equipped to do had I known. It was an enormous relief for me, after all
those years, to be able to let go of my self-blame over that. Yeah.
I’ve lost people. I’ve lost way
too many people. Thanks for asking. Now I’m all bummed out.
Have you or do you ever self medicate or abuse substances
because of your depression?
I smoked cigarettes for years. Have I mentioned marijuana? I’m pretty sure I mentioned marijuana. It was a huge part of my life for years. When I finally stopped smoking pot and was in
therapy, my therapist said that I was lucky I had found marijuana, that the
self-medication had probably kept me from being suicidal through college and
the years afterward that I smoked. Also
lucky that, when it stopped working I had someone around to say, “you need
help. Something’s wrong.” Also lucky that I didn’t find heroin or crack
or some other drug to self-medicate with that would have been far more
destructive and far more difficult to kick when it became more of a hindrance
than a help.
What is your favorite comfort food(s)?
I really don’t eat any of my favorite comfort foods any
more. The damn Paxil weight. Any weight I put on is nearly impossible to
get rid of. Man, I used to love Haagen
Dazs chocolate and peanut butter ice cream, though.
Please share with us your basic depression(and other)
exercises and how they work (or don’t work).
Do you mean from the book?
If you want to improve your self-loathing, the best one I’ve found is
this: You list your greatest
accomplishments. (If you can’t think of
any, you win) Then think about what your
parents would say about those accomplishments.
Think about what your fourteen year-old self would have thought of an
adult who listed those as his/her greatest accomplishments. Think about how long it’s been since you
accomplished them and how unlikely it is that you will ever top them. Ever.
This should get you a little more unhappy than you were before you
started.
What depresses you the most? Why? Or does everything and
anything depress you during a depressive episode?
During an episode, everything is seen through a depressive
lens. Puppies will get old, develop hip dysplasia and then die. After years of pain. The success of my enemies depresses me and is
proof of an unjust world. The success of
my friends fills me with envy and is proof that I am a rapacious jerk. My own success is proof only that the world
doesn’t have the basic sense to spot a fraud when it sees one. This is the chemical nature of
depression. It’s not about facts or
events, it is about perception.
What is your opinion about Robin Williams and his recent
suicide?
Mr. Williams’ suicide made me sad, but I certainly don’t
judge him harshly for it. I liked the
world more when he was alive, but if someone’s pain is stronger than his/her
natural survival instinct, if death seems to a person to be the only possible
escape, I cannot put a moral judgment on that.
I think life and death are always very personal choices. I have no opinion about his suicide, I have
only feelings and those are mine to deal with and not his responsibility or
anybody else’s.
Has anyone thanked you for writing your book and helping
them? (Besides me – I’m thank you right now – thank you!)
I’ve gotten some lovely e-mails from people telling me that
the book helped them. That it helps
anyone is enormously gratifying. Not as
gratifying as royalty checks, but – aw, who’m I kidding? The e-mails are way more gratifying than the
checks. Because the checks aren’t really
that big.
(All my royalties from this book for the month of September
are going to MIND, a UK-based charity dedicated to mental health and depression
research)
Please share an excerpt from your fantastic book.
The book is fairly short and the self-loathing exercise I
offered above is in there somewhere in some form, so an excerpt now seems
excessive. I will say that I’m pretty
sure I use the words, “of”, “because”, and “down” several times. Aw, what the hell. I’m giving away the September royalties
anyway.
Excerpt:
From the Preface: Like millions of other Americans I sometimes get
depressed. This happens frequently enough that I am getting quite good at it.
My mood can swing like Diana Krall
on
a three-martini lunch. On a bright day when everything is going well for me I
can find the hidden source of sorrow, the magic trigger and... Voila! The
bleakness of
the
world comes clear to me and once more I am depressed.
Through
years of experience I have developed -- or observed myself to be practicing --
certain straightforward techniques to help a momentary sadness build upon
itself,
resonating and reverberating like feedback, doubling and redoubling down the
corridors of my empty little life until, at last, I am comfortably ensconced in
my
apartment,
using up my sick days to watch LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE with my cat who has
made it very clear that he will not be coming near enough to
comfort
me until I take a shower.
With
this book, I hope to share some of my hard-won expertise with others who may
seek to improve their skills in experiencing, maintaining and utilizing a
depression.
Whether
you are a one-time depression-sufferer due to a painful break-up or a chronic
depressive whose sadness recurs regularly, there is no excuse for not putting
time
and effort into getting the lowest possible lows out of your moments of
despair. Here is where this Guidebook comes in.
With
useful exercises to help you improve your sense of self-loathing, easy-access
listings of worldly injustices to ponder and helpful hints on how to break your
personal
hygiene habit, this book is sure to have your mood spiraling downward like
Larry Flynt at the Guggenheim.
But
depth is not all there is to a depression. A depression must also be valued for
its duration. In order to ensure that a bout of melancholia lasts a good long
while,
attention
must be paid to detail in the vital settling-in period. If you stick with the
program, follow the simple, step-by step instructions in this book, cut your
personal
productivity
and increase your TV-watching time sufficiently, I can personally promise that
you will see no mood brighten before its time.
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